#32: Laura Behrens Wu Founder & CEO at Shippo

Laura Behrens Wu is the founder and CEO of Shippo. Laura, 26 years old, and Simon Kreuz, 28 years old, they started Shippo in 2013. Laura had her first experience with a startup while working as an intern at a startup company LendUp, which was a Y Combinator alumni startup (as the combinator that invested in Dropbox, Airbnb, and many other top startups). She grew up in Germany, China, Ecuador, and Cairo went to school in Switzerland and started Shippo in the U.S.

Discover more details here. 

Some of the highlights from the episode:

• Shopify, Facebook Marketplace - Partners
• Offering shipping options to grow their business
• Building tech experiences
• Helping them FedEx to reach more clients - smaller
• Competitor or not - Amazon.com or Alibaba - how do you compete with this guys?
• Amazon is driving the shipping standard - so our clients come to us for help to compete
• Customization and authenticity - tell a certain story - millennials
• Talking about a hard time when being an entrepreneur - founders go through a huge amount of pressure.

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Transcript

spk_1:   0:00
Hello and welcome to the leaders in supply chain podcast. I am your host. Broader Palamar you Global supply chain practice head for Morgan Phillips Executive Search It's my pleasure to have with us today. Lower Laura Barron Spook CEO of Sheep Oh Cheaper is the best Monta Kerry shipping software, which empowers retailers, e commerce platforms, marketplaces, logistics providers with the building blocks they need to succeed with shipping. They basically offer Amazon level shipping for all their clients, processing millions of shipments each months for roughly 35,000 customers. They've grown to a team of close to 100 stuff and have raised around 29 million so far from various investors. Laura is the founder and CEO of sheep. Oh, she is She together with her partner Simon, Croat started shipping 2000 and 13 on Get's a very interesting background that she has, because the first experience was with was working as an intern to start a company called Lend Up, which was a white Combinator Allouni Start up. Some of you guys might know why Combinator, as the community that invested in Dropbox MGM, be in any and many other top startups. So Laura started there has a very interesting background host in terms of where she grew up. Because it's the combination of Germany China. 1/4 in Cairo. She went to school in Switzerland and started shipping in the US So very, very interesting story there. Um, Laura, pleasure to have you with us today. And thank you for joining us.

spk_0:   1:21
Thanks for having me. A I'm super excited. Also, this wasn't awesome Introduction. Thank you for

spk_1:   1:26
that. My pleasure. Let's before we we talking even about ship. I'd love to hear a little bit on the personal side because you have a extremely very background and your six extremely Youngers. Well, if I remember now your 26. 27 right? So tell us a little bit of Firstly, first question is how come you grew up in so many places? On second question is, um you know how how does it feel to be such a young young start of founder?

spk_0:   1:52
Very questions. So, um, in terms of German originally, my dad is German. My mother is from Taiwan, so I think just from both of my parents are already grew up. Pretty interest due to my father's profession. We were traveling quite a lot when I was younger, so he would work in various different countries and we travel with him and every country. He stayed roughly 3 to 6 years, and that gave me the opportunity to, like, see a lot of cultures from a very young age, which I'm extremely grateful for. So I was. I was born in in Germany, but then when I was six, we moved Teoh Beijing, China and that was just such a different culture. And I think seeing how people live in different worlds in different countries have really has really influenced my thinking and also, um, made me to make me be relit the kinds of opportunities that I was given.

spk_1:   2:50
Yes, yes, absolutely. I mean, I think there's a there's a coming trend when you were exposed to, the more you're exposed, either in terms of cultures or, you know, professionally. We've had a couple of people in the protests and in general professionally typically consultants and that exposure because they have a lot of exposure to different company cultures, so it kind of worries the same way. But it gives you that openness and that kind of like you said gratitude to know what to know to appreciate basically what you know what is a good opportunity? Truthfully, Um and and so basically, you started ship. Oh, and hold, Were you when you start because you thought you were

spk_0:   3:25
Yeah. I mean, so I came to San Francisco initially as an intern to work for ah y Combinator company called Linda, and I was interning there on the marketing customer acquisition side. And I think that was again, like, such a great opportunity to be working closely with very inspiring founders and a great team. Back then, there were priests, use a baby, 20 something people. And given that I was an intern, like everyone knew that I wasn't going to stay. And everyone is very receptive and open Teoh brainstorming ideas with me of what I could be doing afterwards. And three ideas have brought to the table at the beginning. The feedback from the founder was always Well, this is ah, vitamin, not a painkiller. And if they the advice you gave me was if I want to build something and spent all my time on it, I should try to find a painkiller, something that's holding a real painful in for a lot of people. Something that people cannot live without. Something that is a little easier to sell than just a vitamin, which is something that's nice to have, but not it must have. So, um, the first idea that we had to be my co founder, Simon was in e commerce. Actually, we thought we should built in e commerce store is actually meant to be a weekend and side project. We started working on this while we were still working for other companies. It was never meant to be a full time job. We just thought building an e commerce store would be a good experience to learn how to run a business. And, um, we used Shopify. You stripe used a bunch of different technologies that were already existing and readily available out. They're thes technologies. I think what they had in common was that they were all very user friendly, like, super intuitive to use, really, like beautiful design, beautifully designed as well. And then when it came to shipping, we looked at the technologies offered by different shipping providers like FedEx, ups, DHL, and we realized that first of all, we had no idea what shipping provider to used, and it was very difficult for us to compare these different rights. So it's like in transparent and then the technologies were just not as beautifully designed as a stripe user interface or a shopping site user interface. So that sort of frustration led us to wanting to experiment on the shipping technology side ourselves. And when I bought the founders ASHA that I used to work for, he told me that this is like we agreed that this is a real pain killer. Every single you call Mr out there in heats to ship. It's just part of the business model because people don't have physical store funds anymore. They need to find a way to get their items from their warehouses, their workshops to the to the end customer. And it's also given that this is a problem that every e commerce store has. It doesn't really makes sense for everyone to figure this out by themselves. It would make sense to have one product that is scalable, that is abstract enough for different stores to be able to use it, but also customizable to be able to fit different use cases, and that's what we then started working on and to chance. Your question. Um, I'm 27 now. We started this company for five years ago, so I was 22 at that time, and it's been incredible. You're in Silicon Valley how people take each other seriously when they have ideas. I think it was thing like no one really asked me how old I was. It was more around like this seems like an idea that makes sense. And it seems like we have the right energy or in now that I'm that we're growing the business. We've hired a lot of very experienced managers to help us out at like the team is is diverse into in terms of age as well. And that's pretty awesome to be able to learn from people who've been in the start of space or the e commerce space for like their entire lives. It's just really humbling to be able to learn from them.

spk_1:   7:28
Yes, now the fantastic and it definitely is not about the is not about the age, but you know, it's it's still incredible that you started so young, Andi. I would say that on a graph, you probably still are standing out because typically statistically, the most successful startups, I think, tend to be with people that have already had some experience. And obviously you didn't follow the normal particle eso that's and also also, of course, in in California. Dating doesn't get in the surgical really specifically, there's a different vibe, and there's a different cultural together. But it's Yeah, it's just a fascinating story. And I love your your analogy between the angular in the science. I might steal that myself. It's a great It's a great honor exhibit, definitely for a start that you need to be a thank you because otherwise, um, yeah, it doesn't quite work. I'm so, so fascinating stories. So moving. I mean, let's let's take a couple of case studies name before already, in terms of you work with a lot of you know, we work. You work with a lot of after clients tell us a little bit, maybe 12 of them or outstanding stories. Okay, studies in terms of how you've helped them have you help them increase their business safe course. So, whatever it may be that you know what made the most impact to them by using

spk_0:   8:37
sugar. You know this, uh, our castor. I think what I love about our customers the most is that all of them have very their vadis businesses. Like we work with e commerce stores. But we also work with platforms and marketplaces. So in the e commerce store site, these are people that are direct to consumer brands. They start out as entrepreneurs. They grow into larger brands, larger companies. Some of our customers, as an example, are me on these. They, like, make better men's underwear, and they sell that directly to the end customer. And, ah, as a subscription. Um, then ace up the soap brands. That makes like, nicely nice and smelling soaps, um, tuft and needle that sell mattresses. And then we have a whole lot of, like, brands that people have heard us. Um, but they're, like innovating in the innovating in, like, mostly on the Aperol side or on the, um, like, makeup spaces. Well, so yeah, these are some of the categories that we play in on the platforms and marketplace sides. I think we've been able to part your very successfully with a bunch of the platforms that our customers already use. So Shopify za partner at scenes of partner um Weebly Go Daddy or two of our customers, Facebook marketplace is a partner as well. So all of these different platforms that our customers are using in order to sell, we try to be the shipping interface there. And when our customers you ship Oh, what we basically what we what we do for them as we have them, a simple to use interface and connect them to all different shipping providers at the same time. So when a new order comes in and you want to create a shipping label, we show you all different shipping options. And then once you see all different shipping options, you can choose which one is best for you. You by the shipping label. We give you access to shipping discounts as well, because we have a condom use of scale that we can tap into and then by the shipping label. You send your package out, but we also help you with tracking. We help you with customs. We help you with return labels, and I think when we look at director consumer brands to really awesome thing is, for the interesting thing is done. It's easier than ever to start an online stores so more people are doing it. And at the same time, Amazon and Amazon Prime have really changed customer expectations. So customers online shoppers, they're looking for free shipping. Fast shipping they're looking at a two day shipping has become a standard here in the US, so that's something people look at a check out. So what we're seeing is our customers. It's not just about saving time. We're saving money. It's also about helping them offer the right shipping options to convert more customers to grow their business and

spk_1:   11:31
and how I mean sleeping, feel hitting it a little bit with all the guys that I mean, we told them, um, logistics providers and express providing with right with get on new platforms forgets to get your of your clients. At the end of the day, those options tries to get you to express your yes work, whichever it might be. Our Mexico at the Postal Service's How did you manage to convince those guys to come on the platform initially? Because I mean okay, now you just I think it's, it's, you know, it's easier. You have a friend that are. But initially I think, you know, there might have been some challenges there, right? So how did you manage to convince your first your first type of providers to come and join you?

spk_0:   12:10
Yeah, I think, as in any partnership like we always tried to think about. What is it that the other party wants? Like, how can we help them be more successful? And for every shipping provider, is this different in terms of what they need to? But across the board, shipping providers, I think, are on the same page with us that the deaths technology is not there. Court competent are really good at moving packages at running their soaring facilities at just delivering packages and all of the operational things. But building technology experiences is not what they're focused on. So I think that is one of the first things that we were able to agree on with the shipping providers. And then the next part is we can help shipping providers reach customers that normally wouldn't be using these shipping providers otherwise, so we can help like a FedEx UPS as two examples they are known as more if the premium providers and a ness and be of third thinking about saving saving money, they might not think about using ups or using FedEx. But if they're able to see FedEx and UPS on our platform and see and get the knowledge that FedEx and UPS are actually competitive in certain areas in certain dimensions for certain service levels, that might drive these kinds of customers to do business. So I think these are These are some of the arguments that we've been able to we just like in any in any partnership. We try to make sure that we understand what the objectives are off. The shipping providers and all of the shipping providers want to grow their market share. They want to move more business online. They want fewer people to walk to the store funds and by shipping label stare the one people suit to buy it shipping labels online. And these are some of the things we can help them with.

spk_1:   14:05
Ah, and how we've talked a little bit about Amazon Amazon prime and on Okay, how also this this company pretty much in with Alibaba's, They shifted the perception of consumers, right? In terms of expectations and how fast things get, believe it. But at the same time, this the this, uh, e commerce sites are on the market, menaces are at the end of the day or could be very big. Potential competitors for you is well, no. Or I mean, how do you see the relationship with these guys and how how would you even compete with them? I mean, it's not expected here competition, but you know what I mean?

spk_0:   14:40
Yeah, yeah. No, I know what you mean. It's a good question. I think Amazon is such an interesting player to watch in the space and whatever they do just set standards across the board farmers for out there. So we're for sure, like washing Amazon very closely. The way we look at Amazon internally is that there are not a competitors because for two reasons on the one hand, our customers, the customers that we work with, they want to own the customer experience themselves, so they want to have their own websites their own. They want the customer to buy from their store is not to buy from, not to buy their products on Amazon, and they want to own the customer experience and to and from the moment where they discover the product to the moment where they received the package, meaning they want. Like if you, for example, story or package your items at an Amazon warehouse and you do fulfilled by Amazon, your package arrives in an Amazon box for our customers, like the delivery process is the customer experience where when customers opened the box or see the box, it's a branded box when they open it. It's the experience, um, the tracking updates that get in the meantime that females, like all of that, just is part of the brand. Um, that is part of something that the brand's care about. So that's that's the one. That's the one part that our customers onto a rants to really build on. That sort of, um, personal connection with the end customer and the strong, just brand image that they don't want to sell their products on Amazon because Amazon is typically known for more of the generic products not of the individualized or or ah, lifestyle brand products in the center. On the other hand, what we've seen is that Amazon has actually been really in two other ways because it changes Amazon prime has changed. We feel like customer expectations around shipping speed and shipping costs. Um, everyone else who's not Amazon is now trying to figure out how to offer a similar shipping options to their customers and everyone who's not Amazon. They're either lacking these scale in terms of, ah, shipping volume to be able to get these kinds of discounts or they're laughing the scale in terms of technology resource is to be able to build these pens of technologies and house. So people, when we pitch customers, potential customers, they're all like there. They all understand why shipping is important these days, and a lot of people are also actively looking for different shipping solutions, different shipping strategies. So it's ah, it's ah, good time for us because Amazon is driving that sort of awareness and then last but not least on the I think that's super fascinating as well, because Amazon building out their own carrier network, they bought planes here in the US They're trying to ship or move more packages themselves, and that's something that the shipping providers are worried about. and they are actively looking to enter into new partnerships so that they're not as dependent on Amazon as before.

spk_1:   17:53
And and I went to a 24 there a little bit in terms of your customer acquisition strategy is or were success stories, because again, you're you're dealing with your biscuits fairly broad, right? I mean, the type of flint are again not necessarily huge inside and are fairly. But how do you What's your best level of success in terms of finding this response? What's your once you're success, the biggest success rates. How do you attract them on ship?

spk_0:   18:18
Yeah, so our customers are SNB E commerce stores. That's what we directly sell to and what has what we've learned. As it is best to capture customers at their intent. Customer is actually experiencing a shipping problems. That's when they're most receptive to buy the fastest. So when they're experiencing a shipping problem, most of them go look online to see what they're on when they searched. They need to find us. So we invest a lot in content marketing and seo NPR to make sure that we're highly visible when customers are searching, and then when they find us that we're able to convert them and activate them in a in a good way. So on boarding, inside sales, these are some of the areas that that we invest in. Um, then another great way for us to acquire customers is through business development. So business development taps into the different kinds of platforms and like the places that already exists. So we know that, for example, on Ah Weebly on a Shopify there are a lot of s and B's that could be our ideal customers. So we formed partnerships with these kinds of companies where were able to be in their ecosystem and get access to their customers.

spk_1:   19:35
Ah, goaded on day, I was reading on your blogged, talking about content. I ready a blogger and I was reading that 68 was not considered the cost of shipping to be the biggest challenge operationally on. Basically, shipping has become a key consideration in the purchasing process, to the point where I think the number was 31% of consumers will wait to make a purchase until there's ah free shipping over just one of your numbers. Really. So, to this building upon this book, the question that I wanted to ask you and this is business one friend. But do you see any other important e commerce trends coming up? Or or they will shape the next 234 years?

spk_0:   20:15
Yeah, so I think personalization is another thing that's been pretty big. Um, when customers go, different kinds of customer profiles go through the same e commerce store, being able to see the kinds of Prague content that will convert this specific customer. So customization is a big one. I think it's in terms of, um, the customization personalization in terms of what you see online. But the other trends that is fairly similar is custom user actually craving products that are essential products that tell a certain story that tell a certain risk, like their lifestyle, their choices. So I think, especially millennials. And with the rise of social media, customers are just looking to buy personalize products. And then when they go online, there, expect thing that the stores show them, um, the right products based on their preferences.

spk_1:   21:13
Ah, goaded um and how How about so your urine USA sit in Singapore? US is one thing. Is it is another thing that's different. You know, there's different Europe is another thing. How do you is there? Are there certain differences that you you know, How exactly are you trying to really try to engage in in Asia, for example, just a little bit about the, you know, in worldwide type of scheme of things. You growing and expanding how you see things?

spk_0:   21:41
Yeah, So right now we're active in Germany, France, UK, Canada, Australia and the U. S. Um, I think whenever we talk about being active in these international countries, it means that we have local shipping providers. So some of our international shipping providers FedEx, DHL ups as, ah, the examples like we have them integrated and you can use thes shipping providers anywhere. But to be able to be competitive, we always need to have a couple of local shipping providers that ship nationally internationally, but that offer other competitive rates in addition to the the International Express Services. So, um yeah, so North America, Western Europe and Australia is we're currently where we currently have a local cure your network built out on. I think we're excited like our goal is to have the world's biggest express chair. Your network on our platform like our goal is. Once you sign up, no matter were your warehouses where your shipping from, No matter where the end customers, you should be able to find the best. And in China or Asia China specifically, I think, what really fascinated to see the rise of a lot of jump shipping solutions on and shipping companies that do delivery just in in mainland China. That's really interesting to see. I think a lot of that has I, Ali Bottle A and some of the carriers that they either built themselves or choose to work with. Um so the Chinese market is a tough one, but I'm also I'm also very excited about being it being such a big one and innovation coming from there,

spk_1:   23:28
it's ah, can I can I can sure in terms of again. I mean, I'm based in Singapore, but if travelling to China quite often, it's mind blowing, basically the capabilities that they've got. And they managed to build the cave most driven by Alibaba and JD. The comment in that in the e commerce place and just just fascinating, like you can get literally you can get deliveries within an hour. Let's get along. Today's it's basically within one or two hours on D is getting to a point, but basically you don't need to go to the supermarket anymore because its front of the television and I don't know how healthy it is, but in front of the television and basically you get to deliver that you're at your doorstep. So it's an incredibly fast moving the market. Probably the the most. I mean, I'm, I might be, is bold to say is the most advanced in the world are advancing in the world. Yeah, companies like SF Express might be a next excellent partner for for you. And I'm sure you are already talking to those onda companies. So yeah, I definitely very good. The very interesting And I don't know I haven't seen on your website. Do you collaborate the Singapore Post?

spk_0:   24:31
We don't right now. We don't Okay,

spk_1:   24:34
Maybe maybe all the other countries we have way 30 with the thought process. Yeah, but I mean, indeed, Asia is ah, fascinating market and not the Toko. I mean also not Teoh. Forget Southeast Asia which is develop being at the, But you have different sets of challenges here in Southeast Asia because I'm 7000 islands, you know, in terms of deliveries can be, it can be a total hassle. But again, wherever this big problem, as you said, the right painkiller will be will be sold in in boxes, right? So and there's an opportunity there. So and definitely maybe also markets that you can look at. Um, yeah,

spk_0:   25:23
sure, that one. Nothing. I just think it's so amazing to see how some of these new shipping companies have starting have been started very recently. It's a stalled, these crazy problems around or like, problems that we don't have in the US around. Some addresses might not exist, or you need cash on delivery, and there is created busy densities of traffic. And it's it's been amazing to see that sort of innovation coming from Asian shipping providers.

spk_1:   25:55
Yes, yes, because I mean they have to adapt to the local market here, and I mean a large percentage of the population outside of China. So in China, the crazy part and I was there a couple of weeks ago, and so if you know that the crazy part in China. You can almost make anymore payments in cash because they look at you like you're some alien is not the same problem in, ah, in Southeast Asia to the population that does your scarce. So it's the same week homers they need to pay like they don't have unbanked. Basically, um, so and I wanted to also kind of bring the conversation more towards the It's off their element. So towards the people side of the business working executive, such Andi people make or break companies. So when you hire people at at ah Chippo, what do you typically you and especially your leadership team, right? Especially the people that you have a co founder and then you what you're sharing that you had toe Ah, and you hide more experienced managers. But what are some of the key attributes that you look for when you were hiring any when you are hiring the top management of you of sheep going to take

spk_0:   26:56
the company? Yeah, that's a great question on. I've been thinking about that quite a lot because we've been building at our leadership team this year on there, a couple of things that I'm I'm looking for. I think at this stage and the start of life cycle where we're still so early, typically they're two different kinds of profiles for for exacts coming in the builders and the people, the sailors, people who scale something. We're still so early that I'm looking. I'm looking for someone Was the quality of the builder has done able to scale it as well, meaning that they can't expect that things are built out already but they need to come in maybe built, built a cup figure, figure out a couple things and themselves experiment, then start scaling them. Um and I think some of them thanks if made earlier interviewing was not understanding that there that these are different friend profiles, that people who are expecting to only scale something they will not enjoy having to build things from scratch. Eso that is 11 1st morning. Then I think in line with that, I'm just looking for people work. Take full ownership over a department. So are our leaders there. It's very clear that there functional leaders and they have that sort of functional lights, but most are looking for them to be willing and able to take full ownership over there, their teams, 13 members and um, making sure for that they come to me with social is not problems that they always think in terms of, uh, solving things on. Don't come to me and and look for solutions from me then the other thing that I am quite adamant, developed culture, Hill said. Like I really like. I want every lead they're coming into to raise the bar for everyone else on the team and be you willing to do that for everyone else on the team. So whenever we hire someone like that, person wants to make everyone else on the leadership team board. Carter and it's a really humming. It's including for myself, Peter said. I look up to and then I want to be a better CEO to be able to like to make sure that this person does not regret the decision to come work for me and I think that there was like we always look for people who have no you goes so people who are humble, I'm willing to learn from. I'm excited to from them, but they also need to be excited to learn from everyone else. Eso lo eagle types. I think one of our other investors has had this room really interesting saying it's ah, I don't know if I'm able to swear on this podcast, but what he set was still in the organization at a castle in the organization. So I think that is just phenomenal. Yeah, it is because culture it's got a look at the founders are like, What are the first? What are what is the worst behavior that they tolerate? And if we tolerate that behaviour like, it'll just set a bad precedent. So yeah, making sure that we don't have any asshole, It's an organization that people don't work, that, that people enjoy working with each other.

spk_1:   30:12
Yes, if Intestine Guys is not exactly a curse, though, but yeah, it Z e occurs to have assholes in the organization. They didn't get the oh yes, and then I could not agree more. Yeah, it's, and unfortunately it's It's so prevalent. Unfortunately, and especially, I think the biggest chance of this happening is is typically in sales teams, where you have a top of former that becomes quite egotistic and arrogant and, you know, things. Us she is the top of the world. And then it really affects the overall team. Um, yeah, that can. That can happen. Of course. And then But yeah, anywhere in the organization pretty much were you. You end up in this situation, it it's becomes toxic. So I'm sport on, um and I wanted to ask you also again. You're in Silicon Valley, where, where there's tens of thousands of, you know, top companies stop start up stock ideas being being being explored and people trying to make it. What's your Children was your most challenging part in terms of attracting the right tell into sheep particularly right? Because,

spk_0:   31:17
yes, you have so much? No, it's in a question that I think I've been thinking about a lot as well. So I think the first thing to realize is that because you're in Silicon Valley or for any employer, like all of the people working for you, working for me like they come to work by choice, they come here because they want to work for us, and it's a choice because in Silicon Valley they could go and work anywhere else. There are so many other companies that are looking to hire people are people are all very smart, So but I couldn't. They could go, But they chew used to come work for us, which is something that we s founders me, my co founder. We're very, very grateful for and I think that puts a lot of responsibility on when the Founders then as well I learned that you start out as a founder was just you and your co founder and maybe a couple of people and that it was just You need to be determined, persistent work really hard. I just never give up and run through walls. And then, as you started, do like I tried to learn how to become a manager and managing people distributing. Resource is, it's a different skill. And then now that we have people that are not being managed directed by me, but, um, I go a bigger team like roughly 70 people already I'm being a manager is different from being a leader, being a leader who inspires people that don't directly talk to me every single day. And that is a lot about communication. It's about showing up authentically. It's about being able to articulate the vision the magician in the way that I can spot learning experience. I think that is something that, like Onley, smaller start ups can do like at a larger started at a larger pump. It the, um like one of many people here at triple. What we can promise people is the work that you do has an impact, and that has an impact every single day. And it's something where people can come in and make the difference. And that's the kind of talent that we're also looking to attract right now, like at this stage telling that is that wants to build the talent that off wants to, like be take ownership, be held accountable. That wants to, like, really have that sort of experience where they're a part of something from the very beginning. Um, then I think what we're able to tell people is like we worked with SMB customers and Esmie. Someone's are really relatable, so it's a lot of them don't have venture funding, they're running real businesses. So when they are able to improve their shipping processes or not, have to worry about their shipping processes and makes an impact on their lives, as well. I would say the biggest challenges that we have, we're competing against, like Facebook, Google, all of the other big start a big tech companies that are your apples. Another example on the separate. If the benefits are competitive, everyone is looking to hire for the rightful fence on. I think. Yeah, that's that is that is one of the downsides of Silicon Valley.

spk_1:   34:26
Yeah, come to open an office in another that Not that I know that there's not a lot of competition here is Well, it's just depending where you go and you are one of the few. You're one of the few. I mean, not a few. I wouldn't say that Sell a few is more and more, but you're you know, you obviously less than males, right? So let's put it especially people founder in ah, in collectible, Better with male dominated industry know that they're not. Typically, politics are also Meltem in a lot of things. That's that's why I think trouble. But how has this affected your your journey so far, right? I mean, I mentioned that they might have been some challenges related to this as

spk_0:   35:05
well. Yeah, it's a good question. I think I'm so black that people are talking about this now. It's good for people to be aware of. I think we are. I this tried to, especially in investor meetings, like to reverse like it and put that front and center our growth, our customer numbers and have our investors focus on these kinds of things. And I think at the end of the day, when it comes to fundraising or even when it comes to customer position, like people are trying to find the best companies the best solutions to work with. And so we always tried to highlight that. On the other hand, like for recruiting, I've actually like I see across the board people who are male and females were looking or in fresh by female leadership and wanting to experience a culture like that. And it that's been that's been really positive for attracting talent, whom what else? Oh, it is always a little like saying when you walk into a room and there are a lot of B two B tech leaders and you're the only woman, it just feels strange. But I enjoy, like what I do want to be out there and for people to see that there are successful woman founders.

spk_1:   36:29
Yeah, for sure, for sure. And it is growing. And, uh, yeah, great. I mean, great to have such such examples like yourselves, because I think that will also encourage more and more. Ah. I mean, the more you see, the more the more other people get inspired and more more female founders we will get. And we are getting ready. So I think that's that's fantastic. Um, and if I'm to look, if you want to look back at your genius and entrepreneur, maybe share a little bit with our audience some of the key right in terms, any mention some But, you know, maybe in terms of the best parts in terms of the worst parts. So

spk_0:   37:05
I didn't know what I was getting stuff into when I started this business. That's E said, to be very honest, I think when my co founder and I started to cut this company, we're just excited about solving a problem. And when we were incorporating, there was this line in the document to fill out, and it said, CEO on dust put, That's put my name in there and that's that was not like such a informed decision to make. I think people often look at founders and thanks to all of the answers and that is not true. Um, like there are a lot of instances where where there is fear, uncertainty, you where you don't know what what to do on what's been helpful for me is like having a support network for lots of other founders around reassuring me that this and that other founders were more successful have gone through the same kinds of problems before. Um, like at the beginning, I think the most important quality or this entire time, this most the most important quality has been determination and persistence, like as a founder. My job has been changing every quarter or so, like there is always something you to learn whenever I think I'm like someone good at my job, something else comes up when you toe learning from scratch and it just it's amazing because it's a great learning opportunity and it's you convince an entire career into, um, I know a couple of months and that is, yeah, that's awesome. But it's also like you need to be able to power through, and they're going to be There's ups and downs all the time. Like one hour, an email might come in where a customer has canceled durable, and the next hour evil comes in where a big partnership has been signed. And suddenly everything is very awesome again. Um, uh, just And I would say, life latest learning. Just the latest one has been working more on interpersonal skills around communication. Yeah, thing I think, at least in Germany and school, like, they teach a lot of different classes, history and maths and everything on that process around how to communicate with other humans should. Yeah. So I I've been working on that, learning how to improve my communication, how to be clearer how to resolve conflicts, how to be more inspiring how to yeah, all of these communication als fields. Um, how do you get feedback that you receive feedbag on and Yeah, I I wish I learned that earlier.

spk_1:   39:51
Yeah. Um, final question. Looking back at the ship of story so far, what are the things that make you most proud? It's

spk_0:   40:03
good question. Um, what has made me most proud, I think two weeks ago we went on a company offside, and every year we take the entire company and a company like as a founder, I have this bad quality where always want more like there's always the next milestone. There's always the next partner just signed the next customer to sign the next funds to raise on. In that moment at the offset, when I looked at the room full of the people, everyone coming to the offside toe work on a vision and idea that Simon and I had. That was like stuff like 70 80 people in the room, all these smart brain about my idea that this guy's amazing. Yeah, I want to have more of you, You know, It's not about something specific. It's just a vote. How how crazy it is that all of these people get together it yourself who worked to work on my company.

spk_1:   41:04
If it is, it is indeed the Lord. Thank you so much for joining us. Thank you for all the good stories sharing, you know, pain painkillers, inviting in the analogies and, you know, and and also I would definitely remember the one with the with the curse. Let's let's go toe. It's been a pleasure and really appreciate you taking the time to be with us today. And good luck in growing growing sheep oh to the next for the next into the to you and bigger and the high right Thank you. Thank you for listening to a podcast. If you like what you heard, be sure to follow us on Radha palamar you dot com slash podcast For all the show notes, links and extra tips covered in the interview, make sure also to subscribe to our mailing list to get the news in the nick of time. If you're listening through a screen platform like iTunes or stitcher and you like what we do, please kindly review and give us five stars So weekend Keep the energy flowing. You get more people to find out about a protest. I'm most active on LinkedIn, so do feel free to follow me to stay tuned for our latest articles as well as future guests for the podcast. And if you have any suggestions or any other idea, please feel free to write to me. I responsible. So please make sure not to miss our next episode, where we will be having a few other sea level and top leaders in supply chain joining US Stadium